Tactics
Atrios says, if you're at the inauguration, turn your back on Rick Warren.
If i get close enough, he's gettin' a shoe.
Just sayin'.
If i get close enough, he's gettin' a shoe.
Just sayin'.
Labels: Barack Obama, idiots
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15 Comments:
Throw one for me, too!
By
MK, at 12:32 PM
Barry:
I can't get too upset about this. Just as Obama's catching flak from lefties, wingnuts attacked Warren for hosting Obama in his church, and there are presently plenty of numbnuts who think he's selling out to the devil by appearing with Obama at his inauguration.
I think Obama's trying to bring about a cultural rapprochement here. (You know, change.)
Furthermore, Warren could be very helpful in trying to sell something like universal health care to the general public.
df on 817 nancy
By
David, at 2:13 PM
Hell - Obama's not even going to try to sell universal health care to the general public.
All that Obama gains from this is the ability to tell the American people that he's not beholden to "the left."
Fine, that works both ways. Forme, i'm not interested in rapprochement with these fucks. After screwing up America for most of my adult life, now they want to make nice once they've been kicked out of power?
That doesn't make any sense to me at all.
By
Barry, at 2:42 PM
I might start by not calling them "fucks." :)
Besides, there are lots of very nice people--at the dentist's office, processing your loan application, fixing your car, members of my family--who are sincerely and devoutly religious. What's wrong with being be inclusive? And what's to be gained by excluding them?
More generally, I don't think Obama's so cynical as to invite Warren merely so he can be seen give liberals the middle finger.
I think he's trying to send a signal of inclusiveness, that this Democrat is not an elitist enemy of common people (which is especially important after "bitterly clinging").
I think this lefty dogmatic rage over Warren, on the other hand, tends to reinforce some stereotypes.
BTW, I say all of this as someone who stayed determinedly detached from Obamamania. Now I feel like I'm defending him from people who thought he was the Second Coming two months ago!
By
David, at 3:30 PM
i know, and have worked with (and been arrested with, too) some very wonderful people whose work was inspired by their religious faith. any of them would have been a better choice than this guy.
have you read what aravosis has to say about warren?
i don't know that i ever drank the obama kool-aid, although he was a far and away better choice than that other clown who was running.
i would be just as pissed if he had chosen a holocaust denier to give the invocation, or a flat out racist.
this ain't change i can believe in.
By
Barry, at 3:58 PM
Not that it makes it all well and good, but Bill Clinton had Billy Graham give his invocation. I think the inherit problem of having any person of faith give an invocation, have a chaplain say a prayer before Congress, or whatever, it is that we do not have a national religion, and Obama would be hard-pressed to come up with anyone who'd appeal to a broad spectrum of Americans.
My initial response (and I read Aravois, too) was one of complete disgust. I felt as appalled as I had when Obama merely participated in Warren's "debate".
On the other hand, every time a right-winger attacks Obama for being un-American or un-Christian or Communist, I'm appalled.
And if having Rick "I love helping people with AIDS so I obviously love gay people" Warren give the invocation causes some of the Obamas-a-Mooslim crazies to STFU, then, not really fine, but...whatever...
And Aretha Franklin, who'll perform at the inauguration, clothes herself with the carcasses of 2000 skinned-alive minks. That kinda pisses me off, too, but then I remember that we were only a 4% shift of the electorate away from having a McCain/Palin inaugural...
By
toastie, at 5:37 PM
Markos has it exactly right:
Obama wouldn't be out there making perhaps the strongest statement in support of gays and lesbians by a president (though he's still not technically one, I know) if it wasn't for the sturm and drang this choice generated. It is precisely this backlash that has forced Obama to clearly affirm his commitment to equality. And it will be continued pressure that will force him to do the right thing on the issue.
If we shut up, he'll take the path of least resistance. And that path of least resistance is kowtowing to the conservative media, the clueless punditocracy, and bigots like Warren.
By
Barry, at 6:34 PM
Don't forget that Obama himself is opposed to gay marriage, and he did very little to discourage Californians from voting for Proposition 8.
And before you say, "Well, we all know he isn't REALLY opposed to gay marriage," you should consider that Warren, who is a fairly benign popular religious leader--as those people go--also has to tread carefully out of respect for his followers.
So, I don't see anything wrong with Obama striking a populist chord by engaging the services of a hugely popular, relatively moderate minister. The hard line advocated by Markos, and endorsed by Barry, is a recipe for disaster—and a Palinesque presidency in 2012.
And Barry, bravo for keeping company with radical Catholics. My aunt, formerly a Sister of Mercy, is one of those, too.
By
David, at 11:38 PM
David - i disagree that Rick Warren is "fairly benign."
And Markos is smarter than me. i tend to trust him. Obama's probably smarter than both of us, and it may be that he's playing everybody here.
i don't mind that. i'm willing to play my part in the charade if that's what it takes.
By
Barry, at 11:46 PM
One more point of view from TIME's Joe Klein
It will have zero--repeat, zero--impact on the policies of the Obama Administration. And it may do some good, especially if it gives pause to all those people who think that I--and the crypto-Muslim Barack Obama--are going to hell...If it causes those folks to give the new President just the slightest credit for appreciating their worldview, if it causes them to give him the benefit of the doubt on controversial stuff like talking to the Iranians or universal health insurance, then it's worth it.
By
toastie, at 12:08 AM
Some consolation...Obama may be about to appoint a gay man as Navy secretary
By
toastie, at 10:15 AM
Barry:
Not to belabor this thread, but I do have a more general observation about it.
You cite such stalwart bloggers as Markos and Atrios, but I think it's worth considering that these guys came to prominence as oppositional figures during the Bush regime. Their point of view is that of the minority, out-of-power party. They are all about attacking, exposing and ridiculing. Their view on the Warren issue that you cite are a reflection of this.
I suspect these bloggers are going to have to decide whether they are going to go the Karl Rove route and see governing as a permanent campaign of attack, attack, attack, or whether they are going to adopt the consensus-building and inter-party compromise that effective government requires (as Obama seems to recognize).
Given the abject failure of the Bush administration, I think it would be wise to avoid following Rove's example.
By
David, at 11:38 AM
I don't have any inside knowledge, but it's my hope that this move is intended to buy a bit of quiet from Warren for a few months and make him feel all warm and fuzzy while Obama starts off by repealing DADT. Having the Christian right divided among itself for a few months in order to do something like could make a big difference.
Now, is this a good move? I have no idea. Warren might give the invocation, and then the next Sunday call Obama a Satanist. I don't know. It also could just be Obama capitulating to the "centrist" meme.
All that said, I don't think there's a damned thing wrong with the left making a ruckus over it, so long as people don't go stomping off to Nader in a huff or anything the next election cycle.
By
Unknown, at 3:41 PM
Belaboring the thread...
This video of Rick Warren on TODAY makes me want to puke. If we need this smug, self-righteous shit on our team to get universal healthcare, I'll go bankrupt paying for healthcare. It ain't worth it to get in bed with these...fucks. Barry, you were 100% right in the first place.
By
toastie, at 1:32 AM
After reading this, i'm more convinced than ever that inviting Warren to participate in the inauguration is not only stupid, but a slap in the face to a whole lot of people who worked real hard to elect Barack Obama.
During the ascendancy of the right wind over the past 30 years, it was never part of their agenda to bring progressives to the table or to listen to our ideas. We were always flat out the enemy to be scorned, mocked, or ignored.
Now that we've taken the first tentative steps toward being able to enact a progressive agenda in this country, why is it our most important responsibility to show these ignorant and reactionary fucks that we still value their opinions? Rick Warren and his ilk need to be as marginalized over the next decade as we've been for the past 3.
By
Barry, at 10:05 AM
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